Hey folks! After using Fedora Atomic for quite a while and really appreciating its approach, I’ve been eyeing one particular feature from NixOS: its congruent system management. Inspired from Graham Christensen’s “Erase your darlings” post, I’d like to explore implementing something similar to NixOS’ impermanence module on Fedora Atomic as one step towards better state management.
Why not just switch to NixOS? Well, while NixOS’s package management and declarative approach are incredible, I specifically value Fedora’s stringent package vetting and security practices. The nixpkgs repository, despite its impressive scope, operates more like a user repository in terms of security standards.
I’ve already made some progress with the following:
- Fedora Atomic’s shift to bootable OCI containers has helped with base system reproducibility when one creates their own images. This process has thankfully been streamlined by templates offered by either uBlue or BlueBuild
- Using chezmoi for dotfiles (would’ve loved home-manager if it played nicer with SELinux)
My current (most likely naive and perhaps even wrong) approach involves tmpfs mounts and bind mounts to /persist, along with systemd-tmpfiles. I’m well aware this won’t give me the declarative goodness of NixOS, nor will it make the system truly stateless - there’s surely plenty of state I’m missing - but I’m hoping it might be another step in the right direction.
Particularly interested in:
- Best practices for managing persistent vs temporary state
- Working with
rpm-ostree’s (orbootc’) assumptions - Tools or scripts that might help
- Alternative approaches that achieve similar goals
Thanks in advance!
Sorry, can’t help you there since I’ve found out about that impermanence thing with this post, but I have a question, what is the problem that doesn’t allow you to use Home Manager on Fedora Atomic? AFAIK you just run DeterminateSystems’s Nix installer and everything is set up correctly, aside from maybe a couple of configurations, then you install Home Manager as usual, as the official documentation says
Honestly, you could be absolutely right. I haven’t revisited Nix since Bazzite Buzz #12 informed us on the following:
“The Nix
ujustscript has also been removed due to conflicts with SELinux policies. Users can still install the Nix package manager manually if they so desire at their own risk.”However, the above could be outdated; I simply don’t know. Are you aware of any developments that have changed things for the better?
I don’t remember when this installer was declared stable for use on Fedora, I have installed it in May myself, so after that post.
In the issues tab there seems to be some problems still, like #1325, for me, at least, it’s mostly all fine, the only issue I still have is that some things don’t work due to the user’s home directory being a synlink to
/var/home/<username>, rare enough that I still use itlol. I initially had a better written reply that I was about to send, but I clicked on cancel instead of reply. RIP.
First of all, thank you for sharing your own experiences!
Secondly, in short, looking at the discord servers that are related to the uBlue project, general folk seem to have moved past Nix and use flatpak and brew instead for GUI and CLI respectively. Though, some community members happily report to be content with Nix. So, perhaps I shouldn’t be necessarily opposed to home-manager.
Finally, I didn’t expect to find a crossover between brew and chezmoi to effectively become a quasi-home-manager.
Aw man haha
That sounds a bit funny, when those technologies are just (despite me not liking to use this term) inferior, in terms of packaging, only flatpak really shines because of its embedded permission model, one of the reasons why I also still use it, though there are ways to use bubblewrap with Nix packages which I honestly haven’t tried.
Yeah, I think you should at least give it a shot and see how you like it, it’s not as easy right out of the box as the other 2 you mentioned, of course, so you should find out for yourself what you feel more comfortable using.
That is kinda neat, but, to me, it really feels more like a last resort when you somehow can’t access Nix, Nix is just that much more structurally sound than all the other 3rd party package managers that you can install alongside your system’s, I say that mostly because of versioning that doesn’t break, and package manager as well as configuration being all cohesively described with a single language, it’s not exactly easy, so I won’t say “what more could you want?”, but look at the features of both to see what you really want first.
Perhaps I should have worded that better 😅. It was meant as a textbook example of status quo bias; anything found by default on a ‘product’ that’s deliberately opinionated will see its audience gravitate towards said defaults. Even if those defaults are inferior to other options.
So, in this case, uBlue initially had a script within
ujust(orjust) that installed the Nix package manager. It wasn’t necessarily the perfect fit, but it definitely had its use cases:rpm-ostree)But then, not long after the troubling conflicts between Nix and SELinux, brew was inaugurated as the de facto alternative for CLI and the rest is history.
Yup, can’t agree more.
FWIW, I have actually used Nix sparingly in the past. IIRC, it broke on me at some point 😅. That could be on me, though. Unfortunately, I don’t recall the details. It could also be related to the hardening found on secureblue.
That’s really insightful!
Also didn’t know about secureblue, it looks really interesting, hopefully it can all work together
Sorry for late response.
Yup. It’s a relatively new project and doesn’t try to be very newbie-friendly. Hence, will not be talked about commonly in threads. Rightfully so, as I’d argue exquisitely hardened systems simply have to prefer security over convenience.
But it’s definitely neat and had its fair share of users. As the folks over at GrapheneOS and Privacy Guides seem to be enthusiastic on it, I wouldn’t be surprised if it receives a new influx/stream of users once community members of GOS have launched a dedicated website on it (which is already in the works) and the peeps responsible for PG’s recommendations have finally included secureblue as their de facto Linux recommendation.
So do I 😊!
Thank you for the chitchat! I wish you the best!
Neat, it’s all in the right places, I’ve Aldo recently moved over to Graphene so I’m excited for that!
Ahh same to you, happy holidays!